Skip to main content

Just What Are You Savin‘ It For?

By Carl S ~

Several years ago I posed a question on a Christian website. I began by telling a personal experience following the death of a co-worker who died at the age of 44 from a heart attack. Because his young daughter and mine attended school in the same classroom, we had a connection. I went to the funeral home to pay my respects. The evening after his funeral, I got a call from his widow, who was VERY troubled about her husband’s fate. She thought that, because he did not go to church services, he was “in hell.” After nearly an hour of trying to persuade her to the contrary, because he was a very good and caring man to her and his children, so that he deserved heaven, I concluded that she ended up the conversation somewhat relieved because of our talk. (A couple of decades later, I asked a question related to this topic, to two different pastors on two different occasions: Would I get into heaven if I was a good, virtuous, man, though a non-believer? One answered “Of course”, and the other said “No.”)

Here was my question on the website: Just suppose that, after a person dies, Jesus/God reveals himself in all his glory, to an essentially moral, virtuous individual? That non-believer, faced with the evidence, would accept it, and would immediately gain entrance into heaven, right?

Interestingly, all the respondents said NO. They maintained that AFTER death was TOO LATE. You had to believe and accept without evidence BEFORE you died. This is a dogma of Christianity and Islam. Interesting, also, that all believers claim to believe in a god whose mercy “lasts forever,” who is all-fair. My “solution” - actually proving without a doubt the existence of such a being - would be fair. (I mean, give a guy a break, already!) The purpose of it would NOT be for their god to say, “See! I AM real! Ha ha...now go to hell.” And yet, this is the message I get.

One of the most emphasized doctrines of Christianity is that of FREE WILL, which states that, among other things, their god does not send a non-believer to hell, but that the individual chooses to go there as a result of free choice! BUT, free will, as important as it is made out to be, has no place in heaven or hell - only on earth. In heaven, for example, you cannot choose to do the “wrong” thing. Let's not forget that the same doctrine of NO possibility of changing one's mind once “in eternity,” teaches that a former famous resident of that paradise was thrown into hell as a result of making a free choice! (Let that be a lesson to you, whatever that lesson is.) Nope, no free will options open to you my friend. Tell me, though: what ARE you without free will, but a slave? You call that “heaven,” with NO “exit” sign?

Free will aside, just what is the value, the PURPOSE, of this heaven? What can you contribute to a place where everyone is supremely happy? What can you do to make it better than it is? It sounds like a frustrating version of hell to me. What’s the good of a world where you cannot alleviate and eradicate needless suffering, where nothing remains to be discovered because that “someday we'll know” is known? Where learning is not to be tolerated which contradicts their scriptures, as Christians on earth are taught. Where it is unacceptable to be angry, to question dogmas and impossible to mourn or feel sad over the losses and pains of others, especially those in hell? And what about the absence of a body to experience sensual, sexual, pleasure, or the relief of scratching one's own or another's itches?

Speaking of heavenly rewards: Once I had the experience of being a guest of a Christian Right family, naturally totally saturated in dogmas 24/7/365. The wife, in finding out that I'm an atheist, decided to take advantage of a captive audience, to use her brainwashed arguments on me to accept “salvation,” i.e., convert me. Pascal‘s Wager had to be used, of course: Take a bet and choose her god, what have you got to lose, etc. With my wife sitting near us, she asked ME how my wife would feel without me in heaven with her. I didn't think of it at the time (I was solo, with my hands full already), but, if she's a believer she would believe my wife would be completely happy without me in that place, because as a believer there, she'd HAVE to be. So - what's the problem?

What I've concluded from this woman's preaching, and all other’s, is that it's ALL about SALVATION, a.k.a., save your ass. Sure, I’m aware that missionaries, clergy, and individual fervent believers put out their doctrines and efforts to “save” others, but the bottom line is “save your ass by believing what we tell you to.” It's that simple. This is the UTMOST selfishness , to bask in “I've got mine and screw the others,” in heaven, like Sadaam Hussein or Stalin and their god, living in lavish luxury in palaces, all the while knowing that others are continually being tortured. I couldn’t tolerate that, and yet this is what they preach I should sacrifice, support, even strive for!

Free will [...] has no place in heaven or hell - only on earth. In heaven [...] you cannot choose to do the “wrong” thing.You can see some reasons why I find that heaven idea disgusting. I LIKE to relieve and eliminate suffering, and treasure the anger I feel when humans are denied basic rights, when another person suffers as that widow did because of stupid, unthinking, dogmas. These problems drive me do something about them. I'd be useless in a heaven. I MATTER, here. The destitute, hungry, poor, the hopeless and disenfranchised and ignorant need my information, money, time and skills. NOW. (And why would I waste ANYTHING I have to offer and give it to any religions, with the so-called “guarantee” that by doing so I'll save my own ass?) What could I do if I were dead, a.k.a., in heaven? The residents “there” would tell me: NOT needed. Go someplace else. Go to hell.”

Now THERE'S an idea! A place REALLY needing me. A place of intolerable, unremitting torture, and ALL of this brought upon the victims because they couldn't FORCE themselves, nor conceivably ACCEPT beliefs that make no sense at all to them! Hell is the punishment for, again, free will choices unacceptable to their god. It’s the PERFECT place to alleviate suffering - except the “Merciful God” won’t allow anyone to do sol (Those who believe “prayer works” have not thought about this: All the prayers said by millions over the centuries cannot deliver one soul from hell.) Now, religious dogmas claim to be “hopeful,” and yet hope is NEVER allowed for anyone like me who wants to ease and end the pains of those in this hell. Even through assisted suicide. Could there be anything more hopeless for everyone? HELL has to be one of the most bizarre inventions of twisted, demented, minds of all times. And just as USELESS as heaven. (And by the way; what the hell is the purpose of hell, anyway?)

Getting back to Pascal’s wager: there is ZERO tolerance or chance of free will, of opportunities to be rebellious, to make your and other's lot in life better off in either this heaven or hell. Impossible, according to those “hopeful” faiths.

Be GLAD those places are imaginary. Be grateful that you and others can experience life as fully as you can, as it is, and that you can improve this only life we're certain exists. Be very glad that you won't have to be condemned to mythical places after you die.

Heavens and Hells are for gods and angels who make irreversible choices, not for human beings. Leave them there and get on with your life.

Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Are You an Atheist Success Story?

By Avangelism Project ~ F acts don’t spread. Stories do. It’s how (good) marketing works, it’s how elections (unfortunately) are won and lost, and it’s how (all) religion spreads. Proselytization isn’t accomplished with better arguments. It’s accomplished with better stories and it’s time we atheists catch up. It’s not like atheists don’t love a good story. Head over to the atheist reddit and take a look if you don’t believe me. We’re all over stories painting religion in a bad light. Nothing wrong with that, but we ignore the value of a story or a testimonial when we’re dealing with Christians. We can’t be so proud to argue the semantics of whether atheism is a belief or deconversion is actually proselytization. When we become more interested in defining our terms than in affecting people, we’ve relegated ourselves to irrelevance preferring to be smug in our minority, but semantically correct, nonbelief. Results Determine Reality The thing is when we opt to bury our

So Just How Dumb Were Jesus’ Disciples? The Resurrection, Part VII.

By Robert Conner ~ T he first mention of Jesus’ resurrection comes from a letter written by Paul of Tarsus. Paul appears to have had no interest whatsoever in the “historical” Jesus: “even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, we know him so no longer.” ( 2 Corinthians 5:16 ) Paul’s surviving letters never once mention any of Jesus’ many exorcisms and healings, the raising of Lazarus, or Jesus’ virgin birth, and barely allude to Jesus’ teaching. For Paul, Jesus only gets interesting after he’s dead, but even here Paul’s attention to detail is sketchy at best. For instance, Paul says Jesus “was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures” ( 1 Corinthians 15:4 ), but there are no scriptures that foretell the Jewish Messiah would at long last appear only to die at the hands of Gentiles, much less that the Messiah would then be raised from the dead after three days. After his miraculous conversion on the road to Damascus—an event Paul never mentions in his lette

Christian TV presenter reads out Star Wars plot as story of salvation

An email prankster tricked the host of a Christian TV show into reading out the plots of The Fresh Prince of Bel Air and Star Wars in the belief they were stories of personal salvation. The unsuspecting host read out most of the opening rap to The Fresh Prince, a 1990s US sitcom starring Will Smith , apparently unaware that it was not a genuine testimony of faith. The prankster had slightly adapted the lyrics but the references to a misspent youth playing basketball in West Philadelphia would have been instantly familiar to most viewers. The lines read out by the DJ included: "One day a couple of guys who were up to no good starting making trouble in my living area. I ended up getting into a fight, which terrified my mother." The presenter on Genesis TV , a British Christian channel, eventually realised that he was being pranked and cut the story short – only to move on to another spoof email based on the plot of the Star Wars films. It began: &quo

ACTS OF GOD

By David Andrew Dugle ~   S ettle down now children, here's the story from the Book of David called The Parable of the Bent Cross. In the land Southeast of Eden –  Eden, Minnesota that is – between two rivers called the Big Miami and the Little Miami, in the name of Saint Gertrude there was once built a church. Here next to it was also built a fine parochial school. The congregation thrived and after a multitude of years, a new, bigger church was erected, well made with clean straight lines and a high steeple topped with a tall, thin cross of gold. The faithful felt proud, but now very low was their money. Their Sunday offerings and school fees did not suffice. Anon, they decided to raise money in an unclean way. One fine summer day the faithful erected tents in the chariot lot between the two buildings. In the tents they set up all manner of games – ring toss, bingo, little mechanical racing horses and roulette wheels – then all who lived in the land between the two rivers we

Why I left the Canadian Reformed Church

By Chuck Eelhart ~ I was born into a believing family. The denomination is called Canadian Reformed Church . It is a Dutch Calvinistic Christian Church. My parents were Dutch immigrants to Canada in 1951. They had come from two slightly differing factions of the same Reformed faith in the Netherlands . Arriving unmarried in Canada they joined the slightly more conservative of the factions. It was a small group at first. Being far from Holland and strangers in a new country these young families found a strong bonding point in their church. Deutsch: Heidelberger Katechismus, Druck 1563 (Photo credit: Wikipedia ) I was born in 1955 the third of eventually 9 children. We lived in a small southern Ontario farming community of Fergus. Being young conservative and industrious the community of immigrants prospered. While they did mix and work in the community almost all of the social bonding was within the church group. Being of the first generation born here we had a foot in two

Morality is not a Good Argument for Christianity

By austinrohm ~ I wrote this article as I was deconverting in my own head: I never talked with anyone about it, but it was a letter I wrote as if I was writing to all the Christians in my life who constantly brought up how morality was the best argument for Christianity. No Christian has read this so far, but it is written from the point of view of a frustrated closeted atheist whose only outlet was organizing his thoughts on the keyboard. A common phrase used with non-Christians is: “Well without God, there isn’t a foundation of morality. If God is not real, then you could go around killing and raping.” There are a few things which must be addressed. 1. Show me objective morality. Define it and show me an example. Different Christians have different moral standards depending on how they interpret the Bible. Often times, they will just find what they believe, then go back into scripture and find a way to validate it. Conversely, many feel a particular action is not