• Articles

  • Testimonials

  • Videos

  • Rants

  • Dr. Valerie Tarico

  • Dr. Marlene Winell


  • Recent Forum Testimonials

  • Letters


  • Recently Popular Blog Posts

My Haymaker Moment

By Tusk ~

Hello, Humans. The story I'm about to tell you isn't that old. I've been surfing this site for a couple months now, commenting here and there. I'm only out to a handful of friends, but I'm fairly certain that my family suspects. Recently though, an old friend of mine has decided to take me under his wing and direct me back to the fold. We've been emailing back and forth for a couple weeks...but then everything changed.

Knockout PunchImage by JavierVazquez via Flickr
What started out as an innocent C.S. Lewis quote on my Facebook wall, led me to my Haymaker moment. You might know what I'm talking about. The statement or conclusion that makes the Christer STOP. IN. HIS. TRACKS. I mean... K-O.

Now, to my benefit, the guy is already dead set on being rational. And he thinks he can, while maintaining all his beliefs. So, my task wasn't necessarily to prove him wrong; it was to prove him irrational at the core. This probably wouldn't have worked on someone who doesn't have a problem being irrational.

I'll set the scene:

"If 'good' means 'what God wills' then to say 'God is good' can mean only 'God wills what he wills.' Which is equally true of you or me or Judas or Satan."
-C.S. Lewis

Taking this as a threat, he promptly responded with 4... yes 4 other inconsequential C.S. Lewis quotes. Whoa, right? This guy clearly knows more Clive quotes than I do. Eventually, after the nonsense of God-of-the-gap arguments, I asked if God could create a gap so vast, that even He couldn't fill it.

He then fired another C.S. Lewis quote, like a sniper using bullshit for ammunition.

"Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable."

The best way to proceed was to AGREE that the questions were nonsense, BUT to tell him why. Something he was not expecting. "What makes any of these questions irrational from the start," I said, "is the unfounded assumption that a god exists and can do...anything (make a rock so big, nuke a burrito so hot, make a gap so wide). How could anyone expect to have a "rational" discussion with the irrational premise of faith in God's existence?"

BOOM! He blew up. Telling me that was just my opinion and accusing me of dancing around the issue, and "sickening an honest thinker" like him. He really used these words. And he was doing it in the loving, Christian way you are all familiar with. "You're premise is that God does not exist. Your conclusion is that faith in God's existence is irrational. You're using your conclusion as your premise. You just don't like God" Blah, blah, blah.

But did you catch it? Keep in mind, this entire discussion has been an exercise in assuming God does exist. "God does not exist" never once came up in the discussion. Here is where he realizes how irrational he is. Here is the first triumph of my young atheist experience. Feast your eyes on the Haymaker...


"My conclusion, 'Faith in God's existence is irrational,' is absolutely not based on the premise, 'God does not exist.' Stop putting words in my mouth. It is a conclusion based on the premise that 'Faith is irrational.' It has nothing to do with God's existence. And it has nothing to do with whether I like or dislike the proposal 'God exists.'

Faith is maintaining a belief in a concept despite a lack of objective supporting evidence or in spite of any or all objective evidence to the contrary. I know exactly what irrational means, and 'faith' fits the bill. This has nothing to do with whether I like or dislike faith. You have faith that God exists. You maintain a belief in God's existence despite lacking objective supporting evidence. And you are not open to any evidence to the contrary. I think your past responses make that abundantly clear. This is irrational.

Which is why I asked how anybody could expect to have a "rational" discussion with such an irrational premise as having faith in God's existence.

Interestingly, though, you lack faith in Vishnu's, Mithra's, Thor's, Brahman's, Ra's, Quetzalcoatl's, and Apollo's existence. Even though, the objective evidence supporting their existences is equivalent to that of your invisible incorporeal infinite God's...zero. This is irrational. Not because I don't like it, but because it is without reason. The God of Truth has no more supporting evidence than the God of War or the God of Coffee. So why have faith in any of them?"

You know what his response was?

"Holy shit!"


Filed Under:

About ExChristian.Net

The ExChristian.Net blog exists for the express purpose of encouraging those who have decided to leave Christianity behind. It is not an open challenge for Christians to avenge what they perceive as an offense against their religious beliefs. Please read the site disclaimer prior to posting comments.





RSS Feed
  • Popular This Week:

  • Post Categories

  • Special Contributors

A. Uiet Bhor (8) Agnosticator (9) Alegria (3) Alen Basic (1) Apostate Paul (3) Aspieguy (9) Astreja (16) Atheist Dad (1) atheistnurse (10) AtheistToothFairy (6) Avangelism Project (7) Bill J (17) billybee (10) BlackFreethought (6) Bob P (9) Bob R (5) boomSlang (2) Brian B (5) Brian Kellogg (8) Brisancian (3) Brother Jeff (9) Bruce Gerencser (2) Bruno Corey (1) Butch (2) C. T. Ogden (4) Calladus (5) Carl S (163) Carol Putnam (2) Carolyn Hyppolite (5) Cheryl Ensom Dack (6) Chris W. (1) Christian Agnostic (2) ChuckyJesus (7) ConversationsWithA (7) D. R. Khashaba (6) DagoodS (17) Daniel Morgan (2) Daniel out of the Lion's Den (13) Dano (28) darklady (7) Dave8 (1) DealDoctor (27) Dennis Diehl (1) Dethblight (6) dharma (4) Discordia (4) DocMIke (30) Doubting Thomas (2) Doug John (1) Dr. Marlene Winell (41) Dr. Valerie Tarico (164) DRC (2) EChamberlainMD (11) Ed (Teapot) (2) Eric Jeffries (2) eveningmeadows (13) Evid3nc3 (4) ex-Pastor Dan (22) exfundy (8) exPenty (8) Faithfool (2) freddieb42 (2) Freethinking Okie (1) Gabe (3) God-O-Rama (6) Godlessgrrl (5) Greenworld (4) hellboundsoul (3) Houndies (3) Ian (14) Incongruous Circumspection (11) J.C. Samuelson (25) J.W. (2) JadedAtheist (2) Jake Rhodes (3) James A. Haught (3) James C (4) Jody (5) John Blatt (8) John Botha (1) John Fraysse (7) John Loftus (26) John Shores (9) Kalos (4) Kevin Parry (1) Klym (11) Larry C (5) Larry Spencer (5) Libby Anne (3) Log1cd1ctat3s (2) Lorena (16) lungfish (1) Micah_Cowan (3) Michael Sherlock (5) Mriana (38) MtlRedAtheist (8) Nikki (1) Nvrgoingbk (7) NYdiva (2) ooglyman (2) Patrice (2) Paul So (26) Philippe Orlando (3) Philonous (1) Politics (46) Positivist (5) Psy-Cop (1) psychman33 (5) Rational Okie (3) Renoliz (10) Rev Ex-Evangelist (7) RickO (3) RubySera (1) Rudy (4) Russ Hamel (2) SailerFraud (5) Sam Singleton (5) SConner (2) SeageVT (3) Sharon (3) Simplex Munditiis (3) Son of a preacher (5) Stephen F. Uhl (4) Stillunsure (4) Stronger Now (3) summerbreeze (26) Susan G. Bonella (3) Tania (10) tekHedd (2) The New Heretics (4) The STeWpId MoNkEy (4) The Thylacine (2) TheThinkingAtheist (5) Thin-ice (3) ThinkTank (5) Thomas (1) Tim Simmons (23) Tim Whistorn (2) True Anathema (4) TruthSurge (11) Tyrone Williams (5) undercover agnostic (12) unoder (7) Vadarama (2) Victor J Webster (2) Vyckie (11) Webmdave (67) WizenedSage (126) xrayman (6) xxkindofboredxx (2) Zach Moore (13)
  • Recommended Reading: Support ExChristian.Net When Shopping

Whenever you shop at Amazon.Com, please consider beginning your shopping experience by clicking any Amazon.Com links on this site first. By doing so, ExChristian.Net will receive a small commission, no matter what you might purchase.

The price you'll pay for Amazon.Com products will be the same regardless of how you arrive at the Amazon.Com website, but by using our website as your entrance point to Amazon.Com, you'll provide financial support to ExChristian.Net.